Getting to know your tyres

Questions and answers on steering, suspension, bush replacement, wheels, tyres and much more

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Dino
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Post by Dino » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:21 pm

Thanks for the write up Liquid - it's very informative.

I hope you don't mind but I've posted it up as a quote from you on another forum as it can benefit us all :)

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Post by Liquid » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:34 am

DinoACS wrote:Thanks for the write up Liquid - it's very informative.

I hope you don't mind but I've posted it up as a quote from you on another forum as it can benefit us all :)
Cheers

No worries mate. That's what it's there for
Go tell that long tongue liar. Go and tell that midnight rider. Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter.
Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down.


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Post by Frederick » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:35 am

Liquid wrote:
DinoACS wrote:Thanks for the write up Liquid - it's very informative.

I hope you don't mind but I've posted it up as a quote from you on another forum as it can benefit us all :)
Cheers

No worries mate. That's what it's there for

Will we be discussing what the red or yellow etc etc coloured lines mean on the new tyres?

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Post by Liquid » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:39 am

If you like :wink:

They are employed as a means of quick recognition. A plant will use different colours for different tread patterns and sizes, so when they are racked up 20' in the air in stillages, you can identify them without climbing a ladder or getting them down with a forklift.
Go tell that long tongue liar. Go and tell that midnight rider. Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter.
Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down.


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Post by Frederick » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:45 am

Liquid wrote:If you like :wink:

They are employed as a means of quick recognition. A plant will use different colours for different tread patterns and sizes, so when they are racked up 20' in the air in stillages, you can identify them without climbing a ladder or getting them down with a forklift.
Right.

However I thought and read somewhere once that these lines indicated the factory counter balance of some kind on the tyres. Example, if the red line is towards the outer side of the tyre then ideally you would want the same on the opposite axle.

As I said it was a while ago, but your theory sounds more logical.

Cheers.

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Post by Liquid » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:52 am

I don't quite get what you mean by counter balance, or at least the application of it on the tyre. 90% of modern tyres are either directional or assymetric. Both of these are pre determined as to their location on the vehicle

It's not theory, it's fact :wink:
Go tell that long tongue liar. Go and tell that midnight rider. Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter.
Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down.


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Post by Frederick » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:53 am

Liquid wrote:I don't quite get what you mean by counter balance, or at least the application of it on the tyre. 90% of modern tyres are either directional or assymetric. Both of these are pre determined as to their location on the vehicle

It's not theory, it's fact :wink:
With balance I meant the way the tyre is balanced during the manufacture process. I will try and fish out that link if I can.


EDIT:

My bad, I was confusing THIS with the colours on the contact patch area of the tyres.

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Post by Liquid » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:54 pm

Ah right. I get you.

The paint you find in the tread runs circumferentially. That's what they use as indicators.

Force variation aaplies to measuring imbalance. Soemtimes you will get judder even though the wheels are perfectly balanced. This is a fault of both the wheel and tyre in some cases.
As it is impossible to constantly manufacture either to true uniformity standards there are methods to determine high and low spots of each item. You may have heard of tyres being turned on rims to counteract this, as the high spot of a tyre is quite literally over the high spot of a wheel.

Most balancing machines run a force variation program whereby an arm with a roller is applied to the wheel whilst being run, in order to find any possible areas of issue. It will then graphically indicate the best place to seat the tyre to avoid it.
Go tell that long tongue liar. Go and tell that midnight rider. Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter.
Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down.


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Post by hally » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:57 pm

edit
:oops:

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Post by mclean » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:06 pm

Quality post mate, even I understood it!!!!!

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Post by anton325bm » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:23 pm

Please can anyone help with tyre problem on my e36 325 coupe 92

I have recently had fitted 2 new tyres to the rear size 225-45-17 to replace 215-45-17.
I noticed the inner edge was considerably more worn than the rest of the tread.
The suspension does sit quite low (new rear springs were fitted 2-3 years ago when mate owned car)
When carrying rear and front passengers the tyres catch the wheel arch when conering traveling over bumps.
I guess I need more heavy duty springs?
I still have 215-45-17 on front and thinking of swapping with rear to sort short term untill I can solve cause.Would there be any problems with doing this.
How do I check for correct spring length etc

Ant

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Post by Liquid » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:42 pm

anton325bm wrote:Please can anyone help with tyre problem on my e36 325 coupe 92

I have recently had fitted 2 new tyres to the rear size 225-45-17 to replace 215-45-17.
I noticed the inner edge was considerably more worn than the rest of the tread.
The suspension does sit quite low (new rear springs were fitted 2-3 years ago when mate owned car)
When carrying rear and front passengers the tyres catch the wheel arch when conering traveling over bumps.
I guess I need more heavy duty springs?
I still have 215-45-17 on front and thinking of swapping with rear to sort short term untill I can solve cause.Would there be any problems with doing this.
How do I check for correct spring length etc

Ant
You need to get four wheel alignment done.

By fitting lowering springs you increase the negative camber of the car. This is all well and good for performance and aesthetics, but you need to make sure the settings are within the set tolerances of the vehicle. If they're not, your wheels fail to run true to the road and will scrub the inner shoulders.

Get teh 4WA done and swap the tyres (not the wheels) over. This will give you more wear from the tyres from what's left of their service life; providsing they aren't too far past the limit of course
Go tell that long tongue liar. Go and tell that midnight rider. Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter.
Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down.


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anton325bm
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Post by anton325bm » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:25 am

i guess the wheel alignment involves some adjustment, how is this done and is it expensive?
I had diff mountings done 6 mths ago by Quarry Motors which involved removal of all rear suspension components and asked them about alignment and they said it would not be required as every thing is bolted back as it was removed.



cheers Ant

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tramlining

Post by inline46 » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:01 pm

Hi , just read your post and I've learned alot ,thanks esp regarding tramlining.
I have 17 45 225's eagle f1's on my e36 and thought that the tramlining I get
was due to the tyre width and poss bigger wheels / lowered mtec(factory) suspension.

is there a good combination tyre I could use on the front whilst keeping the F1's on the rear?
thanks for sharing the info :wink:

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Post by Liquid » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:09 pm

anton325bm wrote:i guess the wheel alignment involves some adjustment, how is this done and is it expensive?
I had diff mountings done 6 mths ago by Quarry Motors which involved removal of all rear suspension components and asked them about alignment and they said it would not be required as every thing is bolted back as it was removed.

cheers Ant
Cost is dependant on the place that does it. You're looking between £40 & £60. Try and use a firm that has the Hunter machines. They are spot on.

Nothing goes back exactly the same. Regardless, it's a small price to pay for the difference it will make with regards to handling and general running.

inline46 wrote:Hi , just read your post and I've learned alot ,thanks esp regarding tramlining.
I have 17 45 225's eagle f1's on my e36 and thought that the tramlining I get
was due to the tyre width and poss bigger wheels / lowered mtec(factory) suspension.

is there a good combination tyre I could use on the front whilst keeping the F1's on the rear?
thanks for sharing the info
No worries. Glad it's useful for you

The narrower the tyre you can fit, the better it is for tramlining. F1's have quite an aggressive v pattern, so these have a tendency to tramline quite a bit.

The majority of E36's came with 205 width tyre which is what the car was engineered with. Anything above that will give you uncharacteristic road holding, hence the need to adjust the suspension geometry.

There are many other factors that can assist with dealing with tramlining. Butt spent a huge amount of time reseaching and changing parts on his car to eliminate it so he will come in handy when it comes to knowing what to look for.
Go tell that long tongue liar. Go and tell that midnight rider. Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter.
Tell 'em that God's gonna cut you down.


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